ChitChat - Josh Griffin from Caligula's Horse Interview
INTERVIEW BY: MATT NEW
LISTEN TO THE INTERVIEW HERE :
Hey, guys, it's Matt here. I'm interviewing Mr. Josh Griffin drummer for Brisbane based contemporary prog outfit, Caligula's Horse who are one week off dropping their fifth studio album.
“Rise Radiant”, Sam has mentioned this is your boldest musical statement to date. It's taken a decade to get this music to come together. How do you feel that you're one week away from the release of this album?
Excited? Actually proper excited, you know it. We have been sitting on it for a little while now. You know, it's been ready waiting to come out into the world for months now. So I want everyone to hear the whole thing. Each single that comes out the response has been incredible. It's like, yes. Wait till you hear the rest of it as well. It's gonna blow your mind!! You gotta love it. Sorry. No, wait, you know, the fact that it's only it's next week. It I woke up kind of got settled into that going. Cool. All right. Yes. Yeah, I'm getting to enjoy a bit more this time because within In Contact I was pretty new to the band. I joined the previous year, one tour, learning to play graves recording the album. We're in Europe next when the album's out. So the whole process was very much a blur. So I didn't have time it was such a it was a whirlwind. I didn't get time to get excited, necessarily. I was jazzed about it, but this is. I've been able to think about it more and yeah man I'm keen. II'm a little nervous as well, not apprehension, there's nerves about this new thing coming out. But the response to the single so far, it's just been amazing.
Given the fact that I've been blessed to have an opportunity to listen to this album in its entirety. It's an amazing production. It shows a lot of variation within this record, more so than other albums. In your words, could you explain the concept about what “Rise Radiant” is all about to you guys and to everyone who's listening?
Sam put it best the other day. We were talking about something and just because we're always discussing the meaning of this, what it means to us as a collective and what it means to in each of us individually. Instead of looking at adversity and needing to overcome that adversity, the idea is that you you are going to try out, you will succeed in in the face of adversity, there's I think there's an important differentiation to make between overcoming and then just facing it and triumphing. So, it really is triumph. I think that's what it's about, finding strength and triumph in fragility.
Yeah. I guess in this in this day and age with obviously dealing with COVID-19 it's quite relevant. So it's quite a strong message give everyone. I think from what I have heard, there's obviously some very positive lyrical content and it kind of felt like a nice warm hug in a very tough time this album.
There's a lot of that.
The last few years, as you said earlier, you came into the band around the time of In Contact record, which was your last studio release. There's been another lineup change since that last record. How's the dynamic change since Dale has joined the band on bass guitar?
It's been a breath of fresh air, and that's not to take anything away from Dave. Dave is a dear friend of mine, knew him many years before I joined Caligula's Horse. So, there was a there was a good dynamic there already but Dale has brought just a different energy. And I mean not only in his personality because that Dale's are great guy. He's crazy, but he's fun. I love him to bits. His playing was something that I remember when we when we auditioned him. We got in the room we started playing the song and it was the first minute of the song and I just looked at him and I locked in. There was this immediate connection and we've said just this new energy and and and the way he plays the way he approaches the parts and what he's brought to his parts for “Rise Radiant” has just been revitalising it's really buoyed us up. Doing doing the South American tour and playing Prog Power last year that it was it was really great to do those shows with him and and even the “Let it Grow”, there's a lot of music to learn there's a lot of music for him to get his head around, but onstage it's palpable you know the interaction that I get with him he's bouncing around all over the stage is your crab walking? The dynamic is very much unified, I think there's there's a much more cohesive and unity amongst us all now so and that was that was really prevalent through the writing of the album and really coming into tracking as well that's where I think my proper moment of with Dale hearing his bass tone and part for Valkyrie. I remember hearing that just going. Our Hi. Yeah, that's, that's what bass sounds like now it was. It was always there. But it's an attitude that I love as well.
Dale is lovely guy again, he's someone that I hold dear is a very good friend too. And someone that I think is one of the most talented musicians and one of the most positive individuals I've ever had a chance to meet and look you're not wrong in saying that he is a bit of an energizer bunny.
And it's great. You couldn't be more on the money with what you said. He is. He is an incredible musician. He really is. He has just remarkable intuition and his creativity like you know, just as a unique perspective. I think that that that's that too is that now each each of us has unique perspectives to bring to the band.
Listening to the album too, one thing I noticed because I've been listening to the band for a very, very long time. Obviously you guys one of my favorite Australian prog bands. I definitely see that there's been a real sense of coming of age or maturity in the sound of this record. What could that could be attributed to?
I think it's the culmination of the collaboration between Sam and Jim, because that is the crux of this band, their collaboration, their their creative energies together is what's created this music and the band to where it is today. But I do know that having some unique again, new perspectives for myself dial and Adrian from a writing standpoint has has definitely done that. I think from many conversations I've had with Sam, for example, we've all had with him is that each album has to be had there has to be growth has to be something that interest him, repeating himself isn't never on the table. There will never be an album that will sound exactly the same or just be a repeat. We weren't going to do another concept album, like “In Contact”. We didn't have another epic like “Graves”, “The Ascent” is a long song, yes, but it's it's definitely not “Graves”. I think that's one of the most important things so that maturity I think it's just it's further refinement a combination of that collaboration plus some new perspectives from the rest of us. When Zac was in the band, had some contributions with “Marigold”, “Dark Hair Down”, for example and that's again another perspective. I think that's what we've got.
Has the process of recording records varied from previous efforts? Did you find that how you approached going into the studio any different (obviously outside of the new perspectives of the new members),or did you have a different attitude to what you want to achieve?
No, not really. I think when we're getting ready to record the album, from my money, this was so challenging, from album to album, I think that's one thing that defines it for us individually as well that it's music that thought challenging, challenges you thoughtfully but also technically as well. We all get new challenges to do from each album. “In Contact” pushed me further than I've ever been pushed as a drummer, and “Rise Radiant” has done the next level of that. I've done things on this album that I didn't think I could do nor considered. And that's one of the things I do love about it.
Sam always gives me these ideas, sliding it on the table going, what do you think? So I remember I was at work one day and I got a message from him saying, so I'm 16th note triplet double kick at about 120 BPM Do you think it's doable? No. And, uh, maybe like cool goes and programs and I think I had a different idea of what that meant. So I get the demo and go Okay. Let's see how this one guys but as far as approach if you just know it's bringing the energy. The energy is the most important thing from my perspective as well because at no point do I want to go in and play a pot and have it feel like I'm not putting all in you know and have it feel pedestrian, have it feel lacklustre have no vibe, no managing, they're passionate. I think that's where we all come at from this from the standpoint of recording, and that's scheduled production schedule aside, it doesn't matter what deadline you have, you still have to have that same approach of just giving it everything getting it on the money and it's positive though. I think that's the thing that probably makes it sound like it's you know we're all cracking each other's whips and getting down on each other . No it's absolute positivity you know I went in last day we recorded salt and you have your moments of frustration you kind of lose your mind in the studio but everyone directly across from him in the in the control room and it was just positivity it was nothing but love I'd say that the approaches literally get in and get it done but with with energy making sure we're giving the song each song to respect each part the respective reserved.
I guess the other thing for me that I noticed from listening to previous effort efforts in terms of production and stuff like this album definitely has a larger than life sound about it. I mean, it has this sonically massive sound, which, generally I've found that the last few records even though they're big and orchestrated. They really had this sense of like a sense of delicacy about them, and very refined kind of sounds. This sounds massive. I mean, is there any external influences that helped you guys in terms of approaching to change the sound of this record? Because I know that you've worked. You and Sam have worked a lot with Jens Bogren (Opeth, Leprous), and I can understand that he's had a bit more involvement in terms of the record because I think he's generally just been involved in the mastering process, but he's mixed this record for you.
He did mix this one. The density and the layers of the music hasn't changed. But I do think I think having Jens' perspective on the mix and the music was something we were all really excited about. I remember when the idea got pitched and we're all just like, really? Hmm, okay, okay. Yeah, he mixed Opeth. He mixed a “Deconstruction”, this is amazing, my drums are gonna get mixed and processed by him. But in general, I think that the tapestry of that again comes from comes from Sam and Jamie are particularly Sam. There was no, “we're gonna have a wall of sound” kind of vibe for this, organic is the word I choose, everything happens organically you know and I know that in terms of mixing for example, Sam gives us the brief and then we hear Jens' interpretation of that what does he make of the not only the music itself, but just the the themes of it itself and and how he interprets that. So there was a bit everything is very much a conscious effort, but the layers and the density of a lot of the music is just there from the writing. You know, when Sam will start building constructing the song, we'll get the demos and he'll just keep going. And all of a sudden it does create those layers, he loves those intricacies. It's funny, I actually listened to the album so much. I love it. I genuinely love the album. And it's it sounds really egotistical to say that, but I love this album and the same way I love listening to “In Contact”. I still do, because even though I play drums on it, I love the music.
Yeah. Well, it's a good thing to have. Because I mean, being in a band and listening to your own music get tiresome very quickly.
Yeah, and I don't get tired of this music. There's no other thing that I skip. And yeah, there's a few moments going, I did that, But there's also a lot of just like this. This music is incredible. It really resonates with me and I get why it resonates with so many people because again, I was a fan of the band before I joined, which was really really cool. I feel that Jens really brought he a different sonic perspective to a lot of those intricacies this time. You know, you you starting to hear things that I don't think I would have necessarily heard before.
I definitely heard that too, because within the production line, sonically things like piano and string arrangements and even to the extent of the song “Resonate”, which is kind of an interlude acapella piece which kind of really helps set up the album from start to finish. It's a really cool, really nice guiding piece into the rest of the record.
That not only conceived from that because the song is the song and the ideas germinate from there, but that was designed if there is a palate cleanser, after after the drama and the bombast of “Salt”. So you know, you have this moment where you can come down from that and enjoy this really beautiful layered atmospheric sort of music. And then we did it with more bang is, that's the thing I love coming out from “Resonate” to “Oceanrise” because that's so cool ]that we labor over the construction of the album and that respect for so much. I always start thinking of that It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia thing with Charlie Day with the map, that's what it's almost like going on. What if the sun goes here what of here and when you see that lovely ebb and flow and the dynamics of each song when they fit together like that. That's that's really cool.
How has COVID-19 affected the band and obviously How have you guys been coping with everything that's been going on?
Well obviously the touring has been dramatically affected by this you know we would due to hit American next week on the on the eve of the release of the album and sadly that didn't come to pass for reasons out of everyone's control. It could have been it could have been worse stopping, impact on the band wise but to be to be honest though. Having the album release dated for next week and the singles coming out there's it's it's probably been a little bit more beneficial in a lot of ways because people were really looking for something. We've all been locked down, we're all looking for something to entertain us, to distract us, to move us, to connect with and we've had that with these singles.
Timing wise, unfortunate touring, unfortunately even for album release in some respects, but I think it's actually been wonderful in a lot of ways. I actually was hanging out with Sam last night and we were just reminiscing with just how much we're missing touring. You know how much we're missing playing music live, I truly miss it. I can't wait to get back out there. But, you know, we're coping. We're very much coping. I think we were lucky with the timing of everything done, but we had to postpone the aftermath of that could have been so much worse. As I'm saying a lot of bands have really felt that there's been some some heavy losses for a lot for a lot of artists worldwide. So you know, we were we're pretty we're pretty lucky in that respect.
You mentioned the US tours being rescheduled this stage. So what are some of the the other plans for Caligula's Horse and what does the future hold for you guys?
Well, once the album comes out, I think everything is so uncertain at the moment. It really is, we don't know when we can get back out into. That's the long and short of it, everyone's got these best laid plans I suppose an our only plan's nothing's set in stone at the moment. We've got the reschedule of that tour, as soon as we can tour Australia we're definitely going to get around the country in promote in response with “Rise Radiant.
The rate that we're going at the moment hopefully that will be soon. I don't think we'll get there this year necessarily. Something could surprise us but I just want to we just can't wait to play this music for everyone. That's the future at the moment, we'll see. I think I've had a few people ask are you writing more stuff already. Like not yet know we've all always got ideas turning around but no writing it started yet because and I the anticipation for this coming out is is been too much to sort of be thinking about everything else so.
I'll finish up with the two part question. Did you have a highlight from the writing a recording session from the rise radiant album? And ultimately, what is your favourite track on the record?
You're asking me to pick between my children's actual children, I've got three of them and I'll throw them all under a bus if I have to.
The the writing was, was very new to me, Again, as I said before, when I joined the band “In Contact” was the concept and the narrative and a lot of the stuff was already either in its embryonic stages, or it was already well past that. So contributions from a writing standpoint when not not really viable at that point. I don't think it would have been rejected, but you from my point of view coming into that you didn't want to come and go, what if we did this? This could be really cool, because it was already its own thing. And that was such a tight collaboration between Sam and Jim on that one. So, you know, this the, the writing on this one, our contributions, my contribution was a very organic thing you know, and it was the first time I'd ever done anything like that I come up with a drum beat, send it to the guys and everyone, hey, that's really cool. I kind of dig that.
I went down to Sam's a few weeks later, he's like, hey, come check this out. Like I actually put it with this. This little melodic motif over here. What do you think? like yeah, that's really cool. Five hours later, we had just the germ of the demo version right. So that that was that was really cool. You know, and I I got to see Sam working. Yeah, I got to see him in writing mode and it was it was a well we in because he works at a pretty fast pace. Because it's just as the ideas come out, he's so fluent in you're getting his ideas down like that in ProTools, for example, it's just like, cool. What do you think it is? Oh, we could try this. And it was just it was it was almost magical. It sounds very cheesy and really corny to say that but I and I was I went along for the ride, I wasn't swept up in it, and you just this this dialogue back and forth. And then you were listening back to the demo going, Yeah, this is really, really cool.
But more on “Oceanrise”, I think my favourite moment, because that was really cool. That was a really special thing to be a part of my favorite moment writing that song and having and doing that was we're on the Europe tour in 2017. I hear hey, Josh, come up front. I need some drums for this, and Sam's just got his computer out and he's demos, and I need a drum solo. Come program me your drum solo. I'm sorry, here we are up on the bus in Europe on tour doing that, that was a really cool moment you know, and we're passing the headphones back and forth. I'm you're drawing in MIDI drums at what we're trying ideas back and forth and then I play it back, we're like, hey guys, come check this out. It was really cool. That that was my favorite writing moment for sure.
Tracking the album drums was a bit of a blur just because you have X amount of days to get it down and it was quite challenging. There were slightly different approaches. I think of how I was working this time, it was a lot of getting into the minutiae of parts, as as you always do, but there was there was a real heavy focus on on that and it was a bit of a blur.
Favourite song are you want to do that to me because I do love them all equally? Um I'm gonna I'm gonna bend your rules a little bit because I can because I can. I think I love “Tempest”, I love “Slow Violence” but for me it's between “Oceanrise” and “The Ascent”. That's my that's my final answer for sure.
“Oceanrise” not just because I contributed to the writing of that song. Yeah, that's really cool. But I love me a shuffle, I love me a 12 eight shuffle and that songs gotten this this this this momentum with that and that chorus and as I loved I get a little drum sore like yeah, it's a bit of a me song. Yeah. There's a bit of me in this album. It's really cool. But there's a there's a moment. That just gives me goosebumps every time and it's actually just before the last chorus and it's what Jim says, you know, he's got his vocal line. And it's just him with that really cool guitar. And his delivery of that line. I remember hearing once you've recorded vocals properly just hearing that guy. Oh, like it gave me goosebumps. Yeah, it really did. “The Ascent” is just it's a journey and I love me my journeys. I love big musical journeys like that. And it takes you to places you know, so yeah, definitely those two, those two for the win.
Really appreciate your time to chat with me for Rawing in the Pit Media. Ultimately for everyone who's listening and checking out this interview, “Rise Radiant” comes out on the 22nd of may. Check it out!! It will be on all streaming platforms but given it's a tough time, everyone who's listening definitely buy a copy of the CD support the merc, support band. Because ultimately times are tough they can't tour so let's get behind the physical product.
We have plenty of time to preorder it. Check out our website and all the social media all the all the stuff there. There's some beautiful vinyl yep out there as well if you that way inclined.
I really appreciate your time in chatting to me, Josh and all the best for the release of the album and the short term future for you guys.
Awesome. Man. Thank you so much. Appreciate it.
CALIGULA'S HORSE
RELEASE VIDEO FOR SECOND SINGLE, SLOW VIOLENCE
FROM NEW ALBUM, RISE RADIANT OUT MAY 22
