ChitChat - With Greg Puciato from Killer Be Killed
Interview By: Rory Beeforth
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Album pre-sale link: http://nblast.de/KillerBeKilledAU
We have left out any overlapping conversations to avoid confusion for readers and to make the transcribed article flow a little better.
Rory:
Hey, this is Rory Beeforth from Rawing In The Pit Media. I am here doing an intro for my interview with Greg Puciato. Killer Be Killed has surprised everyone with the second album that they've recorded in secret. It's called Reluctant Hero comes out on November 20. So, Greg was on their media trail; the media blitz. So here I am talking to Greg about Killer Be Killed. But this ended up being a longer interview than I anticipated. So we ended up kind of getting into some stuff that wasn't necessarily Killer Be Killed related, but of life stuff, pandemic stuff, music industry stuff, how to kind of be an artist in the modern world. And it was a great conversation because it ends with us talking about video games. *laughs* Anyway, so without any further ado, Greg Puciato.
Greg:
Sup, brother!
Rory:
Greg, how's it going?
Greg:
Good man doing well! How about you?
Rory:
Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's morning here in Australia. So just getting myself here and getting all the recording stuff ready to go. So, it feels good. It's a fresh, fresh start.
Greg:
That's good, man. Oh, no, it's all right. I haven't been up for too long. I woke up a little late today. So I got up at like 11am so it hasn't been I'm still fairly early in the day like 330
Rory:
All right, man. Fantastic. Um, let's talk quickly about the kind of primordial soup of Killer Be Killed which was you and Max writing for 72 hours in the Arizona Desert. Could you give me a bit of insight into that? Because that sounds wild.
Greg:
Yeah, man. So Killer Be Killed. Sorry! I'm eating a cheese stick. Right now! It's the first time I've eaten today! I woke up and I just had coffee. And I've just been doing these for like three straight hours. So sorry, excuse me.
Rory:
Oh! cheese stick away, man. It’s all good.
Greg:
Yeah, we I saw Max backstage at the Avalon in LA which was a I was there to do some guest vocals for the Deftones. And so as he we were doing, we they asked us to come sing some stuff for a benefit show they were doing for their sadly now deceased bass player Chi. And so we had already done a song, I've done a guest vocal on his record Omen and called for Soul Fly, called Rise Of The Fall. And we had a really good time. And it felt like there's I talked about chemistry with people a lot like the spontaneity of chemistry and like that, how that's always valuable chasing whether it's like a personal relationship in your life, or a romantic relationship or work relationship. And artistically, when you find like some kind of chemistry with someone, like you kind of have to see where that's going to go. And I when Max and I were working on that song, we just, I could just feel it, I could just feel it with him that there was stuff that we could overturn. There were more stones to overturn. And, you know, it's kind of sort of feels like when you're like, there's like you're like brushing around in the dirt. And you find like a dinosaur bone and you're like, Oh shit, and you know, then you brush away the entire thing and you're like, Holy fuck, it's a Brontosaurus. You know, I feel like when you find someone like that, that you're like, you kind of you kind of stumble upon like a little bit of like, Oh, fuck, I think there's a there's something here, you know, and we were kind of talking about that backstage at DEF CON show and I said to him, Well, look, man, like, we should we should do a full fuckin record together. Fuck it. You know? Like, I know that sounds audacious and it's a giant a lot to chew on. It's got to take some time and but why not? You know, like, it would be exciting. It doesn't need to have a lot of pressure it won't be like a band you know, it'll just be a one off the way Nail Bomb was and I was kind of thinking about it the way like jazz people do or hip hop people do where they collaborate a lot It doesn't need to be doesn't need to be like this big fucking thing where you're thinking about it in some careerist way as like your main band, it could just be this experiment. And we were both excited about it and then like a month went by and we hadn't talked or anything like that. And I you know, I hit him back up I hit him up and I was like, Hey, man, like, just like know, I wasn't fucking joking. Like I'm definitely down if you are and he was just like, well you know cool, man. Let's What are you doing next week basically it's like nothing like you should come out to come out to the house and let's you know let's let's work on shit and so it started from like a really pure point the way you would if you were like kid and like just going over your buddy's house and fucking around you know riffs and, and so I had loaded up some guitars and and went drove out to his place and which is cool enough as it is you drive to the desert and you're driving out to the desert to meet up with Max Cavalera to write guitar riffs pretty fucking cool. Yeah, so like, I'm 30 maybe 29 at this point and get out to his place. And we didn't use computers we just sat we use an eight track like you know the way you used to. And we sat there with this little eight track drum machine. Same drum machine that he used for chaos and shit he's had it forever and has still has all the same sand sounds. He's got still got the same kick drums and snares and samples and shit that he had back then. So that was fucking cool. As they were just sitting there thrashing, you know, with guitars in this little sweatbox of a room doesn't have air conditioning and like, in fucking Phoenix, and you know, but the outskirts of Phoenix, that kind of desert. And we just did that for like for, you know, yeah three, three or four days we just woke up and then everyday went out to this room over the next next like just thrashing and ended up with like 15 demos or so maybe 16. And then those demos ended up getting whittled down into, you know, what became the record by like the end of 2010, we pretty much had, what we knew was going to be the foundation of the first record. And we had like one other song that we couldn't finish that ended up that ended up getting finished for this record.
The Troy thing is what really kind of made it turn into something else. Like I was on tour with Dillinger, in 2010. And the word had already kind of gotten out the backside, we're doing stuff we probably both talked about it by then. And so Troy, who I've known since I was 22, from touring together, was like, Hey, man, what's going on with this thing with you and Max? And I was like, Oh, you know, what we're doing? both gonna sing both gonna play guitar. And then he goes, who's gonna play bass? And I was like, we were probably, we were probably just gonna play bass. And he goes, No, I'm playing bass. Like, Oh, alright, well, well, then you're gonna sing to me. He's like, cool. I was like, Whoa, all right. Okay, yeah. takes care of that. Yeah. And he was like, yeah, let me know, next time you guys get together, I'll fly out. I was like, Okay, so then that happened. And then, you know, we, you know, that that was sort of it. But it didn't really become a band until Ben was involved. And it's funny, you know, the Australia thing is holds a lot of importance to us. Because not only was it the first shows that we and, the only shows that we've ever played was that Soundwave tour. But that was 1,000% the point where we became a band, like Ben went into those shows, thinking that he was like a hired guy that we were just he was, he was just going to do their shows. And I think we even thought that like, we were just going to play those shows, now it's going to be at like we were, it was a one off. It was a pain in the ass trying to book shows and tours because of our other schedules. And we're like, this is gonna be we're gonna play these Australian shows. And that's going to be it. And then we got down there, and the way it felt all of us together. You know, Ben was sort of the missing piece. And we knew like, right away, the rest of us knew because Max and Troy and I, we'd already had a relationship while at that point, we were like, looking at each other on and off stage, just being like, Fuck, yeah, man, like, this is something something's happening here. And the last show that we played the last Soundwave show that we played, we got off stage and like Ben, was still kind of up on the stage, backstage, like kind of doing shit with his drums, or whatever drummers do, like taking the drums apart and drawing them off, put them away. And, you know, Ben and me, Max, and Troy and I were down, you know, in like the, in the back area, like in little asphalt parking lot. area. And we looked at one another really quickly, without we hadn't even talked about this before, but we had the same exact thought we looked at one of them. We were like, hey, so we're gonna keep doing this. And we're gonna ask Ben to join the band. Right? Right? That's what we're all thinking right now. And, and I think it came from Troy, I think that pretty much came from Troy and we were like, yes, that's 100% what we're doing and then he was like, are cool. I'm gonna go get Ben. You know, so it goes and gets Ben, you know, brings him down to the backstage area, and we're still sweating from the show. We're like, hey, Ben, so we want you to join the band. Are you in and he's like, yeah, like, Alright, cool. You know, so like that point. You're a band and there was no question to me that we were going to make another record. Yeah. So that that was when it all really started to feel like what it is now.
Rory:
That's amazing. And Ben seems like a fun guy as well based on like, you know,
Greg:
Oh dude! He's a cartoon. Ben’s cartoon dude. Yeah. He's fuckin fun all the time. Like he's just like he wants to play all the time. He's down like to fucking rock all the time. Like he's he's fun to hang out with. I mean, I think everyone we're all pretty fun. I think I can be a little intense at times but i think you know, I think all of us are I think we're all fun but Ben is definitely like Yeah, he's a good energy man. Like his energy changed everything completely. Like it definitely made it like it it just became a different thing like not just as a player because I mean his playing is insane and like obviously he's a fucking phenom as like a metal drummer. But like his energy is so up, you know, like people play like their energy is man like and his energy is you know, he's so his energy is present is a lot like his playing. It's just like really, really fucking up and really fast and really like, you know, it just it just has a lot of gas in the tank man. So Oh, yeah, blood and everything.
Rory:
He drummed on Jane Doe, which was like a huge touchstone for me and my teenager years which would have led me to like being a fan of Dillinger Escape Plan as well. So like, he that high energy, that kind of Oh, wow. Like, I didn't know, you could play like that know bands were like that, you know, that was my first kind of experience. And so to hear that energy, and now you've got that in your band is kind of exciting.
Greg:
He drives a lot, you know, he drives that feeling like he's a, he is playing even, like, it's like, man, we beat the life out of him on this record. And like he never, he would track every day until his arms and legs needed to be ice, you know, like, he would just keep going and going and going and going and like, stamina like for drummers, that's one of the things you really got to like, you got to get good shit out of them early as Or else, they're a lot of times their, their, their, their legs and their kick start to lose, get weaker, and their hands start to lose consistency. And you can see it, you know, when you're looking in the computer, you can see it, you can see the waveform, getting a little bit more erratic, or like it's getting lower, because they're starting to like, they're starting to fucking wear down. But Ben is a fucking machine Ben's like Lombardo man, like he's just a stamina a machine. And, you know, we were just like, kind of got off on that. So we were just like, we spent like a long time doing drums on this record, because we could, you know, because he was just, he was just, we just abused him, you know, we were just like, we're gonna spend, you know, we're gonna take a day and we're gonna spend a day on every single song, you know, and just get, like, get fills like there’s 30 fill very fill, you hear on the record, we've got 30 you know, like for, and for every part on the record that there isn't a fill, we have a fill like that he could have just been playing a fill the entire time, from the start of the record to the end if we put them all together because we've just got so fucking much, you know, and like, he never complained, and never was like, you know, he was just excited every day he's like, wants to be at the studio first. Like he's always fucking ready to be there. Like, it's like, it's crazy man. Like, he's got so much enthusiasm for it.
Rory:
It's even sadder now to hear the fact that he he broke his arm or his elbow a couple of years ago. Did that affect him?
Greg:
Oh Dude! That was fucking scary. It was really scary, because he's see how much he loves drumming and how into it he is. And like it, I was, there was a moment where like, it's all he talked about for a second, like kind of like how much pain he was in from the accident and how he didn't know whether it was gonna come back. And then like, that was just like, like, I couldn't even imagine it as a singer. I was just like, Fuck, man, what would happen if like, I just like, paralyzed the vocal cord and like, didn't know for sure whether or not I was going to get it back, I would be fucking freaking out. And so I felt for him. And I think we were all like, you know, he gave us like, a real uncertain energy there for a second but he pulled out of a quick, you know, he was playing drums for he was supposed to and like, you know, just kind of just refused to have any problem he came out of is fine. Now sounds kind of nuts.
Rory:
Oh, that's fantastic. Can you get Can I get a little bit of insight into the icing process, like was it bags of ice? Like ice packs, what's go?
Greg:
Like sticking your arm in a bucket of ice and like, you know, those kinds of things and like, all kinds of stretching and all kinds of, you know, he's like really aware is really physically aware as a drummer of what he needs, you know, and, and he doesn't, he treats it like, he treats it like athletes would treat a sport, you know, like, he's really aware of it all. And really into it all, like, really into, like the rehabilitation and the getting ready and stretching the icing in the fucking supplements, you know, different vitamins and shit that he probably burns through more of, than a normal person would burn through and like, just like really is really on top of them. And I think you have to be like, if you're going to be playing that kind of music for cuz I'm like that vocally, like, I'm really obsessed with like, having a million supplements a day and know how much water I need to drink. You know, if if I am on tour, or if I'm in studio, I'm taking all kinds of crazy decongestants and things and shit that I don't take when I'm not doing that. So I feel like you as you get older, if you're doing this kind of harsh stuff that most people would tell you is going to be if not detrimental, it's going to at least be it's going to fucking be dirt, it's going to degrade you over time or corrode you over time, if you keep doing it. I think you'll wait wait for it to not do that as you have to be to be up to start to become kind of obsessed with like the conditioning aspect of it. And he definitely is, man. Its all for positives.
Rory:
In your own conditioning. You know, with your kind of supplements, you're kind of regime like, how do you figure that stuff out? Does that just come over time? Are you looking on subreddits to figure out like, what you should be taking?
Greg:
Yeah, I mean, I'm a student of it also, like, I figure out my own thing. And then I've, you know, you've read shit, and it's been like, you know, what's good for this? What's good for that? You ask other people that, you know, you know, if you know someone that's like, you know, on A level it's like, I mean, obviously, but behind the scenes Now, I know a lot of fucking singers that are I've been doing this for a long time that operate at a really high level and like, what's your thing? What do you do? Try that out and see if it works to see what works for you and us develop like you're saying, you know, like, I know what I'm more prone to, you know is and what bothers me and what doesn't bother me and like what kind of foods bother me And what kind of foods don't bother me and you know, all that kind of shit man said you don't think about it like, you know, I went to your nose and throat doctor a few years ago and he you know he the same guy that did like Cornell and shit like that, like he stuck a fucking video camera or you know camera on my nose and down my throat looked at all my shit and had me sing and scream and all this stuff and then he's like, okay, here's what you're dealing with, you know, here's what you should take for this. And here's we should take that looks like you know, I can see at the bottom of your vocal chords that you've got a little bit of a little bit of damage, but it doesn't doesn't look like it's from screaming or anything like that it looks like it's from acid reflux. So you're obviously dealing with probably happening when you're sleeping, you're totally unaware of it. So, you know, take take some acid reducer before you go to bed every night, and that'll probably go away, you'll probably be able to hear that in your voice after a little bit. And sure enough, you know, so it's like, little things like that, that you're just like, just kind of, you know, over time you become like a little pharmacy of decongestants and all kinds of vitamins and shit. Your make sure you're on your game.
Rory:
Dr. Greg Yeah, like it.
Greg:
Like, you're a professional, you know, like, you're some fucking monkey that picks up a microphone and barks into it. And like, you know, it's like, you see people that are operating at a great level when they're old. It's like, you look at some people, and they sound fucking amazing. And you look at other people that sound like fucking dogshit. And you're like, I don't want to there's, I want to keep getting better. I want to keep you I want to be I want to be I want people to be like, I don't understand how that guy keeps getting better. Like, I don't want to be the guy that you see like, Oh my god, yeah, you want to be Vince Neil. Let's be real, you know, you don't want to be Vince Neil.
Rory:
No, no one does. Um, tell me about the recording process of Reluctant Hero and how it differed to the self titled one I feel like, during the time of recording the self titled album, you guys would have been flat stick or you specifically, you know, Dillinger would have been like that was at a full force at the time, you would have been really busy. Like, was the recording process different to this second time around? Will you less busy? Do you have more time to think about it?
Greg:
The difference mainly was that we weren't. There's a lot that was main difference was that we weren't so protective about our roles, and we weren't so we weren't so hesitant to step on each other's thing. I think the first time we were more like, you got to you got to figure out how to play nicely together. And you're like, I don't know, do I want to step on this guys thing? Like, how do I, you know, how are we part in this out? Is this my part? And this is your part like is this? You know, if you've got an idea, and I don't like it, do I tell you, you know, or if you got an idea, and I got a different idea? Do I tell you or do we just kind of like try to you're kind of tiptoeing around each other a little bit more, you know, the first time and you've got your own ego too. So you've got a little bit more ego, and a little bit more hesitant to focus someone else's ego. And then over time, you kind of develop a different relationship with yourself and with the other people. So like your, we went into this a lot more open and a lot more. Not “I’m not Greg from Dillinger”. And “Troy's not from Mastodon”, and we're just you know, we're different thing, we're going to fucking see what we are going to forget about all the other shit, we're not going to think about, you know who we are. And the other thing, we're just going to treat this like it's a new thing. And that was really freeing and really exciting. And we, for me as a guitar player, like I definitely approached this record a lot more intensively on the guitar. And like it wasn't like me, and Max and I are playing every second of the record, we're both playing even ever. But even if we're playing the same part, we're both playing. And there have been there's a lot of times where there's textural guitar parts and accompanying guitar parts and solos and things and that kind of shit wasn't as prominent on the first record. So the guitar is a lot more multi dimensional. And then the vocals are a lot less segregated. It's not like Troy’s part, than my part, then Max's part. There's a lot more times where we were playing backup roles to one another. Like we're harmonizing with each other, I'm screaming in the background along with Max or we're kind of like doing a lot more texturey stuff.
Rory:
Yeah, there's a lot more back and forth. Now it does feel like it's all finally like the oil and water have, you know, yeah, I don't know, centrifuged enough that it's all mixed together.
Greg:
Yeah, it feels like all the ingredients are kind of making one thing now instead of it being like, here's all the obvious separate ingredients, it's like, oh, this is we're all coming together and making something different. So that was the main thing. And that just came from time and comfort with our, with one another and comfort with yourself. And like, you know, just willingness to like, to keep getting further and further away from from protectionism of any kind, you know, like not trying to not try to protect your thing. We were joking around a lot on this record that we were like trying to fight to see who would be standing in the back of the photo. And that's like, as kind of like a kind of like a metaphor for like, you know, because at first you're like, I want to be the front, you know, like you're, you're kind of bringing your fucking thing to the table and you're like, this is my part. This is my part. And then I think on this we kind of got really got off on the idea of like, the not having to be the main, like, you can feel good about your contribution just being like, I'm just gonna jump in and sing a little harmony on Troy's thing real quick, or I'm gonna play a little guitar thing in the background. And that's, that's enough. For me to feel feel fulfilled, you know, I don't need to feel like I got to be the guy, you know, in the front. Like, I think we all really, really got a lot out of that approach. And like it, we were just kind of fanning out on one another the whole time. Like, it wasn't. It's like Troy did something awesome. We were like in the control room while he was singing just being like fuck yeah man! Yeah. And it wasn't like, you know, we were just, we were just constantly like, fanning out on each other's thing. And that made the record seem really fun. Like, it's, even though it's like a heavy record. And like, there's times it's like, you know, aggressive and shit like it's still never It always feels fun to me like and that's it, we did not like a way that makes it like a non serious piece of music. Like it just it there was something really free and fun about the whole process this time. And I think that bled into the recording.
Rory:
Do you think that some of that fun could have come around to being a project that was in secret? Like because this just kind of nowhere? So do you think there was also that freedom of like, Oh, well, no one knows. We could just scrap this if it sucks, was there part of that in your mind?
Greg:
Yeah, I hate telegraphing what I'm doing next man. I'm like, I've got so much shit cooking right now that I just won't tell anybody. Like I won't, why? You know, I mean, like, what's the point, just get done the thing. And then if it's worthwhile, do it like I don't understand not no over a long enough timeline, you fucking given people an endless handjob isn't going to make they're going to make it any better. You know, like, you're not going to just tell them people for years and years working on this thing working on this thing. Good. But you guys can't guess what I'm doing today. Like, you know, showing them a picture of a guitar. Picture some amps and was like, so people can go What are you doing? Is it? Who cares? Do you just, fucking, if the things good things good. You know, like, you could fucking fluff people for years. And the thing is if the things a turd, it's not gonna matter. You know, it's like, and it makes you feel all kinds of pressure because you're like, Oh, cool. We told people five years ago, we were working on this thing. We're still not done. You know, that's like it, you know, I would rather just yeah, just let it be something that and the flip side of that is that you end up really like valuing it more when you're doing it secret. Because you're kind of like, you're it's like this treasure that no one knows that you're fucking (doing) it changes the way that you think about it. It really does. Like as someone who has done both, or, you know, there's things that people have known that I was doing for a long time, or like, people were expecting a Dillinger record to happen every two or three years when we were an active band. But like when you have something that no one knows that you're cooking it like it takes on different thing in your life a little bit becomes like this thing that you just have with these other people like Nuclear Blast didn't even know we were doing it. Like we didn't tell anybody, we didn't tell the label. We didn't tell anybody. Like we didn't fucking we made like a pact to be like no one. We cannot tell anyone. We don't need label people in here. We don't need people asking for demos. Like we don't need fucking someone to accidentally slip up and fucking say that, like Killer Be Killed’s working on a new record. And that just gets out like, we just need to keep this to us. Like, and you know, have it be like, our secret thing that uh, when it's done, it's done. You know? And like, pretty much just us and Josh Wilbur the producer were the only people that knew that we were doing it and like that made it like yeah, there's something something sort of cool about that. Just for us? Be is it once it's out it's out it's everybody's like wants to talk about it. It's everybody's and then there's this whole other component to it you know, and like you're constantly wondering whether you should be filming or whether you should be you know, getting pictures or taking pictures or should we be taken in studio things or rehearsing should we be filming this? Like fucking corrupts the whole thing you know, like fucking fuck all that and just get down to business here.
Rory:
Saint Agnes proved that putting a camera in the studio might not always be the best idea.
Greg:
Yeah, yeah, man it doesn't make the thing that you're doing any better and on the long run the thing being good is what's going to carry it you know like like I don't need I don't think there's a single fucking snippet of them recording of Appetite For Destruction you know for the recording of Master Of Puppets and like doesn't make a fucking shred of difference man like those records are they did what they did because of what the being good you know not because of endless marketing cycle like people have this weird fear today with all the social media should they're afraid that if you stop talking to them, that they're gonna fucking forget about you like your audience is gonna forget about you, NO they’re not! They’re not gonna forget about you if you fucking don't suck if you keep being good be like if you do good shit they won't forget you know like you can it that's that's a lie. That's a lie that people have been like beaten in the beat in you. But you got to get content you got to engage your audience and like it's important to engage your audience. No, it's not. It's not I don't give a fuck what Daniel Day Lewis is doing right now. I don't give a fuck what fucking Quentin Tarantino is doing. I don't need to see Quentin Tarantino go to Burger King. I don't fucking care here. And I mean, I don't need 90,000 updates. While fuckin Quentin Tarantino's making the next Quentin Tarantino movie, just put the movie out, and it's gonna be fucking good. And if you keep making good movies, I'll keep paying attention to them. It's fucking it. That's it.
Rory:
Yeah, wow, that's it's, it's a refreshing take on a world that's become dominated by social media and like you said, it will come, it's getting louder and louder that you need!
Greg:
Well, for me, you're doing the opposite, it's actually really destructive because you're training your audience to view you, in trivial as a triviality you're training your audience to be you in trivial terms. So it's like every day of your life, you tell people that you're fucking brushing your teeth, getting gas and going to Burger King and fucking hanging out and you're at a concert and doing thing, I just bought this coat, check out my haircut, whatever the fuck you're telling people on a day to day basis, then when you do try to tell them something all the behind the between the lines of that is that you're fucking sad, desperate, you need validation, and you can't fucking go minute of your life without thinking of it as content, you know, because you're so fucking empty and vapid inside that you need all these people that you don't know, in real life to fucking clap at your haircut or something like you fucking are, you know, just to get all excited that like, you have a guitar in your hands. It's like, fucking, that's what I'm seeing when I see that is behind is is really the subtext to that is that you're sad, lonely fucking person and needs a lot of validation in your life. And the second subtext to that is that you can't possibly be doing anything, it's good enough to hold weight without you needing a fucking sell to me 8 million times. It's like, I don't need if I really, something's good, I'll find out about it, I need you to come knock on my door and tell me, tell me about like, fucking, I'll just find out about it. You know, and, you know, so for me, it's like, if you tell someone every day what you're doing, and then you finally have something to say to them. And you try to say, Hey, listen to my song. It's like, you've already trained me to fucking know that every time you open your mouth, you're saying something trivial to me. So now, I associate you with pictures of french fries, and your haircut and some fucking picture of yourself that you found online from four years ago that you because you search your own hashtag, whatever other pathetic thing that you're doing, like, you know, it's like this. So now when you tell me about this new thing that you've worked you're working on, or you've been telling me about the thing that you're working on for last three fucking years so much that I know that like, I don't even care anymore. Like you're just goddamn song already. And then you give me the song. And you've already beaten into me that it doesn't matter what you say. Because every fucking day you tell me something every fucking day you knock on my door, and you and you're Hey, look at my haircut. Look at my fucking food. Look at this picture. I found myself five years ago. Like, cool, dude, you're the guy that shows up my house and tells you something fucking stupid every day. So then finally, you're going to show up at my house with something to actually say and you want me to take it seriously. Fuck off. I'm sorry, man. I've started going on fucking tangent here. Obviously, feel pretty strongly about Hey, fuckin fuckin stupid. They fucking do this to their own detriment because they believe that content matters. Fuck content, dude. Content doesn't matter. Substance matters. That's what matters, dude. Substance not fucking content you like you don't need to fucking put out white noise. No one needs to hear a white noise. Life is exhausting. You have to hear shit all the fucking time. You already mean people talking music shows TV news all the fucking time dude. Like, fuck, just fucking let me know when you have something to say. Don't let me know when you want to be heard. You needing to be heard isn't valuable. The only thing that's valuable is you having something to say. So if you don't have something to fucking say, shut the fuck up. Sorry.
Rory:
No to apologize. Well, I've we've here in Melbourne, Australia, where we've been locked down for the last six months in our homes and not really been out to do much else. So other than staring into the void of like social media or things like that you do start to kind of see through the matrix A little bit where you're like, Alright, who's like trying to really push who isn't who's kind of quiet, who's actually saying something of value. Like it's, i I think it's a lot easier when you don't have the cacophony of noise of the outside world to really start to say, Oh, yeah, okay.
Greg:
I think this whole thing has been a really great societal reset. I feel like it's been like, you can't take stock like, everyone's everyone was so distracted with life. They're so distracted with with, with all the shit that was flying at them that you know, I feel like everyone was just, you know, most people were just at this fucking peak of dopamine exhaustion and like, noise and excess and fluff. And, you know, they got caught sleeping at the wheel like this, this whole thing like the Trump thing the Coronavirus thing, like, all this shit has been like a like, when you're driving the car, you fall asleep at the wheel and you hit the warning track, you know? And you wake up, go fuck yeah, this is the kind of like the full societal version of that where we all had to sit still sit inside. And you can when you start to find your equilibrium and you're not freaking ot anymore coz you can't go out. Like, you start to be like, oh, like I can hear things a little bit better. And I can see what's going on around me a little bit clearer. And I can tell what people's motives are. And I can tell the difference between substance and content. And I can tell the difference between art and entertainment. And I can you know, tell you ever seen a difference between who's trying to tell me something that's a value and who's trying to bullshit me and like, you got to sit still sometimes for all that to become apparent. You know?
Rory:
Ah, completely It feels like this has given us time to put the glasses on like the They Live glasses and just start to see a little bit of the kind of eroding of our society.
Greg:
Yeah, dude, we're on the fucking we're at the time where you have to, like we really have to make a decision. It's like, Are we going to be a failed species? And like, are we gonna make it to the other side and we can become, you know, space aliens. Like we're gonna have to make that call like right now. Like it's not we don't have time anymore. Like we don't we don't have time for this and I feel like you know, we got like I said, we got caught sleeping at the wheel because there's so much entertainment and the speed of entertainment was which is essentially distraction was so fucking fast and relentless. And, you know, on paper, things look pretty good. Like especially over here it's like oh, yeah, as a black guy is President, gay people getting married, weeds are starting to get legal everywhere things pretty fucking chill together. Not chill at all. Dude, there's this other shit happening. And then bam, you get caught sleeping at the wheel and suddenly fucking, you know, you're like, Oh my god, you know, this guy's president and like all the shits going, you know, we're on the brink of possible dictatorship and 8 million people you know, there's all these racists everywhere and there's tonnes of police brutality and as a fucking plague you know, a virus sweeping the world and Oh, shit, Kim Kardashian. Kardashian shows the biggest show in the world? What the fuck are we doing? What's happening? Like, how did we get to this point? You know, everyone was obsessed with the likes and Instagram and numbers and fucking, just like, Jesus fucking Christ, man, like, we got so off track, you know, as a fucking as a species. And like, didn't even realize we were there. They didn't realize it until like, this last year. But I do feel like this is like a pivot point. And I feel like Generation Z is is a is kind of coming of age. And like, where they just saw this happen, right and problem, like they saw the train wreck in a way that I think is, is is healthy in like, for productive, like, they'll be able to help steer shit into a different direction. Because they they were they existed when the fucking car went off, trim off track, you know?
Rory:
Yeah, completely. I was gonna ask if you had any advice to give any younger musicians coming up in the same now? And it's a very different kind of post 2020 world? Is that kind of your advice is to stop focusing on social media get it done?
Greg:
Yeah, who cares? Don't think about it, I think the fucking boils down to I think you need to be militantly protective of your thing. At the end, you need to be aggressive about that discovering, and the thing that you then need to protect, you need to be militant about protecting your thing. But you have to be really aggressive about finding your thing. By thing I mean, like your, your individuality and your voice and what you have to say and what you have to offer. And what you have to offer essentially, is your fingerprint, that's your individuality. It's like figure out who you are what you have to say. And, and then become really protective about nurturing that, and keeping it from getting corrupted and don't fucking care. Dude, likes don't matter. Like, numbers don't matter how many followers you have no matter sick, dude, Lindsey Lohan as got like 15 million Instagram followers and was trying to put her in a fucking movie, because you can't act, she sucks. You're a man. Like she's a fucking celebrity. Like, who cares? This is not valuable. It's not fucking valuable. And it's like, you know, you're not gonna get any better. You're not gonna, it's not gonna make you any better to have people following you liking you. And it's like, like, it doesn't matter, man. All that matters is that you find something within yourself to say, and you can and you get to the point where you can quickly access that and translate that into some kind of tangible thing. Like, like a thing of art. Like I said, it doesn't matter. It wouldn't make any difference. It wouldn't make any difference at all, if fuckin You know, this, like an artist, like if Daniel Day Lewis had had Instagram, it wouldn't make his movies any better. It wouldn't it wouldn't change his box office, it wouldn't make any difference. You know, like no more people would go to see the Daniel Day Lewis movie, and the movie wouldn't be any better. And the ratings wouldn't be any different. If he had social media, so it's fucking pointless. You know what I mean? Like, it's if you enjoy it, and it's something that for whatever reason you find to be enjoyable. It's like fucking that do it by all means, but like, you don't get it don't get all caught and hung up and think that it matters. It doesn't matter. You know, it's like, even like numbers and shit on Spotify or how many you plays and all that shit. You have to constantly look at this quantification of your art. Like you've got to it doesn't matter it really really doesn't doesn't make any fucking difference at all. Like, fuckin Marilyn Manson's got like 5 million Instagram followers or something like that Nine Inch Nails has like a few hundred thousand. And it's like, you were gonna tell me that Marilyn Manson wouldn't trade places with Trent Reznor in a fucking heartbeat? You’re tripping! So it doesn't matter. You know?
Rory:
If you got a little bit of time and actually liked it now that you mentioned Nine Inch Nails I want to pick your brain a little bit about the band era that you were in with Atticus Ross, back in the day. Could Could you give us a little bit of insight how that happened? And if you guys still kind of catch up or chat now.
Greg:
How did that happen? Brett Gurewitz. Okay, so Brett Gurewitz was talking to Dillinger at that time. Like, before we did the EP with like Pat and Brecker, which is you know, we had all kinds of, we had we had behind the scenes, like all kinds of people are coming at us during that time, like every label in the world was trying to figure out what we were up to. And all these people, you know, thinking that we were going to be like the next System Of A Down or Slipknot or something. So we got everyone was just kind of blowing shit up and coming all our shows and, you know, record people were flying in from everywhere to like, you know, try to talk to us and we, you know, we were under contract, like we were under, we were in a three album deal with Relapse. So, you know, wasn't there, we're kind of all just, it was all pointless, but they were all, you know, sniffing around in the Brett Gurewitz was the one guy that when we were kind of talking to these people, we were like, Oh, this guy's cool. You know, he's a guy from the band, started a punk band. It's like, I think about him, like, you know, Federal Prisoner is like, you started Essentially Epitaph to because he didn't want to fucking have to deal with other people when it came to putting out Bad Religion records. And then, you know, he pretty much had an accidental hit with the Offspring record. And then that turned the whole thing into like, a, the giant thing that it is now, but it was a vehicle of necessity. And because he didn't want to have to fucking play ball with all these other, these other people. So like, you know, as a punk musician, guy, who didn't thing we kind of were like, We dug his whole vibe, and like, he kept coming to shows and when, when the Patton EP happened, we were able to do that outside of our Relapse contract. So we did the Patton EP with Brett, you know, just through talking to him at that time, was like, Hey, man, like, I know that, you know, Dillinger already had Mike kind of locked in to do this EP, but I want to do something with you too. Like let's do something. I've got these. I got these songs that I've been working on with this guy Atticus, this is before Atticus was you know, in Nine Inch Nails but he was kind of affiliated you know, behind the scenes, he was working with Trent and I think at the time they were working on the Jack Taylor rocker record that never came out that Trent was kind of treading out because we're like working on and he you know he Brett was like I've been doing these kind of like punk rock songs but with like this kind of like electro industrially type tip that this guy Atticus is brings the table we're looking for someone who's saying it's just going to be an EP, do you want to do it? Yeah, let's fucking do it. Like, and that was pretty much it was like talking. I mean, I was so fun. I barely remember it. I was so young. I think I was 22 and we might have been 21 when we recorded that. It was a real blur. I just remember flying to LA I'd never been to LA besides being on tour where you just play like one show. And then you leave. And you know, I didn't I was young at that time. So I didn't know the amount of people that I know now. It was all still really like wow, this is crazy. I'm going out to LA and you know Brett Gurewitz lives in some giant fucking mansion and everything was all like whoa, fuck this is crazy. And you know just doing that was it was super cool that guy like that who had been through so much wanted me I'd even been on record at that point. Like the fact that he wanted me to sing on it just based on seeing a handful of Dillinger shows was pretty fucking cool. And and Atticus, you know, ended up being in Nine Inch Nails and Christ now they've done like, they've gotten like 4000 Emmy Awards, or Grammys or Oscars or whatever they do for all the soundtracks they do. But uh, you know, so he's like, a much bigger deal now. And the whole thing is so much bigger, but at the time, it was like, you know, no one really knew. I didn't know what Atticus was going to end up doing. And but yeah, we've always kept in touch like I we touch bases on other from time to time. I don't think it'll ever happen again. I don't think we'll ever do another thing. But, uh, but it was cool.
I wouldn’t mind re-releasing that I think about it every now and then, I don't think it ever came out on vinyl. So I think I talked to Brett about this. I think like, not too long ago, maybe a couple years ago, time times gets fucking weird after a while you think something that happened two months ago was less or two years ago was last month, you know, but like, I do feel like there was a point there was a second where we talked about maybe reissuing, like you know, because it only came out on CD we talked about maybe putting pressing some vinyl for that first thing. You know, maybe if one thing led to another maybe doing like another song or another couple songs, but it's like, everyone's if it happens, it happens. And there's so much everyone does so much now. Like, yeah, back then I just had, you know, this is just Dillinger. And like, Atticus wasn't, you know, making scores for blockbuster movies. And it's like ever Everyone's so much busier now. So the little tougher.
Rory:
Yeah, it's a it's a crazy thought that, you know, when you're doing that, it's like, it's just this little thing knowing now where everyone ended up, you know, I think there's a lot of that in your career trajectory, you know, like people that I'm sure you've worked with or done a little bit with, it's like, oh, holy shit, look at this now, you know, like, you're all apart now
Greg:
Dude it is fucking awesome, that's one of the coolest things that happened with Killer Be Killed, that we've set around having these conversations like talk man, who knew, you know 20 when I was 22, you know. I have it one where with Max where I like to do when we had this conversation backstage at the Avalon that Killer Be Killed is going to turn into this. And then, you know, I talked about Troy and Ben and like, Who knew and Converge and Dillinger, co headlining these, in hindsight, we thought they were the, you know, biggest deals in our worlds, but he's a little hardcore festivals in fucking, you know, Pennsylvania or something like that, like, you know, it was you know, Dillinger and Converge were always the headliner kind of around that Miss Machine Jane Doe era, you look back at mastodon and Dillinger touring together, when we were both in vans, and like, we're playing like a, you know, Relapse Festival or something like, window, all those things were like, the biggest things in our world. But like, if I, if we looked back, they would they, we were so much smaller, it's not even close, we were just like, everything was so much smaller than, and we had all accomplished nothing compared to what we've accomplished now and like, but like I was, and it was 20 years ago. So it was like, it was all this kind of like, Who knew that we would each be, you go on to do what we've each done. And then who knew that we'd even still be professional musicians, individually in 20 years, and then it's like, you go back even further. And then you can, you know, me and Max. And Troy, I'm sorry, me and Ben and Troy can fucking all be like, imagine going back to your 13 year old self and being like, you're gonna be in a band, when you're 40 in that band, and you're gonna, you know, already have been in like, a bunch of other bands, you're already going out, you're gonna play music your whole life, and you're gonna be successful at it. And then one of the bands are in is just, you're also just the Max Cavalera from Sepultura is going to be in that band with you. Like, it's just, there's so many things. You know, there's so many things that as time goes on, just become like, let up but like ‘What the Fuck’, are obvious. We're obviously all, you know, having some kind of collective hallucination or something, because this is also stupid. You know, this is also silly as you get older, like all the connections and parallels, and like things that happened, the odds of them happening are fucking so remote. You know, just like, everything's a trip, man. Like it's all a trip. The other advocates the that the error thing is trip. Yeah, you go back and you're just like, I don't think about that record. And I go back and I look at it, like, That's fucking weird. Like me and the guy who owns epitaph and found a Bad Religion. And the guy who like, you know, did the, the social network soundtrack for Trent Reznor a bunch of other shit and like, What the fuck, you know, like, I think it's, it's a good thing that when you do the things that you do, you're not too aware of, you're not able to see the future because you would fucking it would bug you the fuck out.
Rory:
Oh, and I think that it's super interesting, because I think that set a bit of a precedent for bands like Youth Code now to mix that industrial sound with a punk sound. That's like, that seems so normal now. But you guys are doing that. When did you record that? Was that like, 97?
Greg:
So like, I have a lot of friends and like the industrial scene in LA, the industrial industrial on the electronic scene, and LA is like, pretty early before all this shit went down. It's pretty pretty built up, I think, you know, probably only second to Berlin as far as like how big it is. And there's a lot of underground shit going on. And kind of like all night warehouse parties, industrial things being, you know, I had a couple times and like, last few years where I'd be talking to someone, and they were just not even remotely aware of like a band like Dillinger Escape Plan or Killer Be Killed. And then they would be like, wait, you sang on that you were in that Error EP. And I was like, Yeah, they're like, and then they would know the songs and words and shit like that. And I was like, Are you fucking kidding me? I was like, You're fucking joking with me. They were like, I remember having a conversation. So I was like, you're literally definitely fucking with me. There's zero fucking way that you're telling me that you're a Error. But you didn't know who the Dillinger Escape Plan was? That's no, there's no way. You know, but then they were because the industrial thing is its own world. And it kind of has its own thing. And it only like, occasionally bleeds back and forth into metal like in times of like Ministry or Man or Youth Code or something like that. It's all starting to kind of kind of melt and emerge again now. But there. There's a lot of industrial scene people who do not leave that scene the same way there are metal people who don't leave metal and that tripped me the fuck out. Because I never really realized that. I didn't realize because I was looking at it from a different perspective. I was looking at it from like the guy in a heavy band perspective. I never, I didn't know anybody in the industrial scene back then. Like Atticus was like, the only Dude, I knew who did that shit. And so now and you know, some young person that I'm talking to that's been in the industrial scene, his whole life tells me that like, when he was 14 years old, he was all about the Error EP on like, Really? That's wild. Like I didn't, I didn't realize it. So I didn't wasn't aware of that scene at that point in my life. That's pretty funny. Pretty cool.
Rory:
Very cool. And I guess a little bit of that industrial stuff bleeds into your work as well with for sure. with, you know, black Queen and Child Soldier Creator God, yeah. Like, how do you implement that kind of stuff into your own music? Like how do you kind of see that?
Greg:
Um, I just don't put boundaries on myself as a writer and I make sure that I have tools around me to be able to pivot Like, if I hit a wall, like creatively, it's usually, you know, it's, to me, I'm like, it's only the tool in your hand is kind of, it's not really that important. You know, you're important, like, the thing that's in your brain and your soul is important. And you're essentially just using the tool to translate. You know, art is an abstraction. So art is a reflection of some sort of emotion. So you're, you're you're trying to create something tangible out of a feeling that can't be described using technical terms. So they mean that in that's, that's what artist is so whenever when everyone says, like, explain the song, I mean, what do you mean by the song? I think that's a dumb question. And like, I was like, asking a painter like, like, what's this painting about? Well, it is what it is that that is what it's about, you know, so for me, like a tool is not that important. Like, if you have someone that expresses themselves artistically, you can just pull whatever tool you have in front of them, and they'll make something with it. Like if you put up like a bass guitar in front of David Lynch, and tell him that's the only thing he's allowed to use, he's going to do something with it. And so for me, I've just always tried to surround myself with new things that are feel exciting to me, it's like get some drum machines, get some keyboards, you know, get a program or get you know, just different tools getting a guitar, a bass get like an acoustic guitar, get a fucking, you know, whatever man, like get a fucking trumpet, like get anything like get a typewriter get, you know, get a get a camera, like just get anything that you can use as a tool to translate this feeling that you have inside of you to an external object that then people can, can can see or hear. And so that that that to me is really it. I don't think about genre, I just try to surround myself with tools that enable me to be creative. And if I hit a wall, you know, with an electric guitar, I'll pick up an acoustic guitar and if I hit a wall without I'll play a keyboard or wallet down, I'll start tinkering with the drum machine. And if all of it is fucking shot, then it's like, Alright, stop thinking about it for a while and just go do other shit for the next few days, your life and like, Yeah, go for a run, hang out your friends. Do some stuff where you're not, you know, you're not pushing up against the wall and then come back to it when you come back to it. But I never I'm not like a genre fan. Like I don't I really don't know a lot about many genres. Like I'm not a historian of metal. I don't know much about it. Like I don't know much about industrial. I don't know much about electronics. I don't sit around like, not a big listener. I don't listen to music. or read about it. I'm not like, not like music historian guy. So like, I don't I'm not like an idol worshiper where I like I hear something that I think to myself, Oh, I want to try to make music it sounds like this thing. I don't, I just picked it up and start playing with it and just push the button and turn the knob thing like so come out.
Rory:
So if you're chasing this kind of emotional feeling with your music, what I guess is the emotional resonance that say Killer Be Killed has versus like your solo stuff, or do like Dillinger what kind of emotion Are you trying to get out of people while listening to Killer Be Killed?
Greg:
Well, not other people, it’s outta me. So it's like, I just I'm like, let me pick this thing up and whatever. You know, sometimes it's not like, Killer Be Killed is not as emotional of an outlet to me as Dillinger and Black Queen or my solo stuff. Like to me that stuff is more like you're an indie actor. You're an indie director, you're an indie filmmaker, and you're making these things that are like, deeply personal to you. And, you know, you're really tapping into a lot of raw emotion and Killer Be Killed. For me. It's closer to like, when I was 13. Before I was like, so invested in myself as an artist. And before I was so into, like, you know, the before I had really become aware that I expressed myself emotionally through art, like I was just a fan of having music and I was fan. I just wanted to pick up guitar and write riffs. You know, write vocal melodies and write songs. And so you know, Killer Be Killed to me kind of scratches, it connects to that feeling of like, before I was really primitive, so heavy, and before like, I utilized art as like a emotional medium. I just wanted rock you know, I just wanted to rock and I wanted to fucking write riffs. I was a fan of that as an act like sticking and I still am like, I still like picking up a guitar and just writing a riff like it can feel it can just be like fuck yeah, that can be the only emotion that comes out of it can be like the fuck yeah, and that's totally fine. You know, like you can you don't have to be and that's what I I think this band keeps me in check a little bit from you know, disappearing on my own ass. You don't have to just be like, you don't have to just be this kind of guy. You don't have to just be serious artist guy. You can be Daniel Day Lewis. And then also do an Avengers movie. Every now and then you don't have to fucking just be one of the other I think people it's just goes further into the whole like people trying to brand you thing and you believe in that you're the guy that you were yesterday. It's like you can be super serious emotional, make really heavy personal art guy and still make fun. You know, do the fun, blockbuster summer movie, like I fuckin loved Terminator two. I loved Appetite For Destruction. I didn't fucking I wasn't listening to Axl because I thought it was like some sensitive poet guy. I like that. It was fucking badass, you know? And I wasn't watching Terminator two to get some deeper fucking arthouse meaning out of it. I was badass like so it's to kind of be badass to still do. It doesn't have to mean it's not a You know you can you can be sensitive artist guy and still do fucking Welcome to the Jungle to you know you don't need to pick one dude you don't need to be Nick Drake or fucking Hetfield bro You can try to do but you can you can have you can have it off I can make sense and other people are the ones that are telling you that you have to fit some paradigm you know like you feel like you can't pick both, you know you could if you're an actor you can only do the fucking heavy indie dramas because as soon as you do an Avengers movie, no one's gonna take you seriously in the indie dramas anymore. No you don’t! No you don’t! It's a prison, that's a trap. Just fuckin you know, you can you can do it all. Do it. Fuck you want just do what you want. That's how I feel like!
Rory:
Yeah, you could be like, Marisa Tomei, she's like, Spider Man. Auntie. But then she's also like, you know, she's Queen of the indie world still, you know, you can do both!
Greg:
you can do both, it's totally fine. And like, I feel like I love I love all of it. You know, I love all of it. Now that I have so many different vessels, they keep each other from feeling limiting to me, like if I only had Killer Be Killed, I would want to fucking, you know, it would suck. Or if I only had the Black Queen, or if I only had solo material. And there's a, you know, even the Dillinger Escape Plan. It's like when I only had Dillinger Escape Plan and I had to form all these other things, even a band that is as parameter list as that was was still constricting. So I feel like now I'm finally at a point where I've got kind of like every box checked a little bit. And like I you know, I could still do other collaborations and one offs and talking, things like that in the, you know, in between the cracks of those things, too. So it's like, you just fucking get excited for all of it. You know, the only limitations are the ones that you put on yourself, you know, and that's kind of goes back to what you were saying advice for, like, young artists, like just fucking find the excitement, you know, and do maintain that excitement, like, maintain that excitement for like, don't tell yourself that you're the guy that you were yesterday. Be because at some point, you're like you weren't, you know, when you were a kid, you didn't know who you were, you were excited to find out who you are, and you're excited to learn new things, or excited to develop new things, meet new friends and fucking play with new people and fucking hang out with new people. It was exciting, you know, and like you didn't calcify yet into the story that you play yourself and who you are, then you just drive around and wake up into every day and like you put on your you costume and walk about your day. Like, just, you should just wake up every day. Wake up every day and just fucking, you know, just be excited for the adventure man, like whether it's personally or artistically creatively, and then just fucking Don't think too much about it. You know? Don't like don't think about what the audience is expecting from you or wants from you or what you're already conceived parameters are whether someone is going to like the thing that you did, or not like the thing that you did. It's like there's so many people that like Killer Be Killed. And if they heard the Black Queen, they would be like, What the fuck is this shit? Yeah, like so many people that like one kind of Dillinger Escape Plan song. Like they might come through the door because they heard one of our more pleasant songs and then they're just like, they walk in the door and they're just like, nope, they just turn right back around and walk right back out the door, you know, and they hear some some of that other shit. So it's like, but that's not my problem. that's their problem. You know? That's, that's it. I don't care. Do it. Just do what you do. Do it all.
Rory:
Great words of advice for young artists, for sure. That's fantastic. Um, how much more time we got, man. I feel like we've gone over?
Greg:
Um five minutes.
Rory:
Oh, fantastic. I got a couple of fun questions. I want to talk to you about.
Greg:
*sings* Five minutes to goooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Rory:
Shit! Alright! Speed round questions! Ah what was your favorite Nintendo game as a kid?
Greg:
Contra!
Rory:
Oh, yeah. Have you? Have you played any games recently? Do you have time to play games in your busy schedule? Now? Is that something you still?
Greg:
Yeah. Still have time!
Rory:
What do you play?
Greg:
Actually, no, I haven't had time lately, but I'm gonna fucking not lie. And I'm going to fuckin admit to the world that I got fucking super sucked up in Fortnite for a second and super sucked up in the War Zone for a second like, but like, in the middle of the night. Like, I got no other musician friends that have weird ass schedules and shit. Like, you know, some of us will hop on and, dude, I gotta tell you so I didn't play video games. I was really in Nintendo and a Super Nintendo like NES and I was super into Genesis and Super Nintendo. And then I didn't play video games from like, fuckin 17 to like, maybe like five years ago. And like, five years ago or so randomly, I'm just like, I want to fucking check videogames back out again. And, like, got super into there. You know, I got it right in the nick of time, because I really love the genre. I'm not familiar. You're probably you're in a games and shit otherwise you wouldn’t have asked me that. Like, I really liked that the Metroidvania thing?
Rory:
Oh, hell yeah, man. I love Metroidvania!
Greg:
So I was obsessed. The last game that I was ever obsessed with when I was a kid was a game called Castlevania Symphony of the Night. And I was fucking obsessed with it. And I and I played I played all through like 10 times. I kind of got back into video games right as the Metroidvania thing was really taken back off and I fucking really really dug Hollow Night like Hollow Night was incredible. Like, I can't remember those. You know, some others I got into.
Rory:
What about Axiom Verge?
Greg:
Yeah, Axiom Verge was sick. The new Zelda was sick that’s not a Metroidvania but new Zelda was sick. Love the the last Metal Gear Solid was cool The Last of Us I didn't play The Last of Us the second one yet but I like the first a lot. And then and then yeah, I just got sucked up into this fucking Fortnite thing and kind of spent, you know, it's a quick way to fucking just like because I've spent so much time writing music like I spent a lot of time working on music and behind the scenes like working on like industry shit like really you know releasing my own shit takes up a ton of time and I'm so involved in every single aspect of every every band I'm in I'm like involved every goddamn aspect so heavily that it like takes up so much of my time that like when I'm not doing that I just need something that I can immediately get into. That's fast that I don't need to spend a lot of time in, you know, and like those kind of games like those like Fortnite kind of games, War Zone II type games are so quick that you can just fucking peel off a few of them. That's why I used to really like Street Fighter two and shit like that a lot too, because you just peel peel them off real quick. You know, you don't need to spend a lot of time on it. You can do in 10 minutes.
Rory:
Who's your player and Street Fighter?
Greg:
You're gonna you're gonna hate me. This is a bitch player. But Ken I'm a big Ken guy. But uh, yeah. Oh, fuck a dude up a fuck dude with Ken. I like arcades a lot to like the whole arcade thing happened at a good time for me like I was really an arcade when I was a kid. And now this whole barcade thing before the world shut down. The barcade thing was like, pretty big everywhere. And so that was that was fun for a while so hopefully all that'll still be there when all this ends, but uh, yeah, like all the old shit man like all the old games Miss Pac Man fucking all that, I’ll play Miss Pac Man forever, dude. Yeah, like right now though. It's been a minute since I've played like a long one. I got so burnt out. I think what was the last one that I really put tons of hour…? Do you know it was good. So the guy that the guy that created Symphony Of The Night who left?
Rory:
Oh, Bloodstained? Is that what you’re talking about?
Greg:
Bloodstained was sick. It should have got more hype than good, but that came fucking ripped. I was bummed when that ended. I was so into it.
Rory:
Did you play the the retro classic prequel game as well?
Greg:
Yeah. fucking sick. Super cool. But you know what bothers me that there's so many other killer franchises that they're just letting fucking die. Like what are they doing? What are they doing with fucking Contra. Why do they keep fucking up Contra? Why can't they get that right? What the fuck dude,Why are you just letting NBA Jam rot into the ground? Like why are they letting fucking, where's the new Mike Tyson's punch out? Where's fuckin Metroid? Where's the new Metroid? Dude? Like, why are they fucking around here? Like, where are these fucking games, they're just letting these franchises die. Mario Kart eight was sick. I was really into Mario Kart eight for a while. And again, like, you see the Fortnite thing how they do all those games now where they just keep updating them. It's like this endless update that keep it fresh. Why aren't they taking Mario Kart eight? And just being like, oh, we're just gonna like, add a new track and add a new person and add a new court and just to keep it going. You know, so that like, people keep playing it. I think the all those kind of things like why don't they fucking more of those games should operate like that. Like, I only stopped playing Mario Kart eight because they just got old. It's like, give me something new be like fuck every month. Just drop a new course and drop the fucking you know, talk or keep people hooked.
Rory:
Sounds like a meeting at Nintendo is on the cards for you in the future as well. Maybe Can you should pull? To tell Nintendo to fix it up!
Greg:
Yeah, just give me Just give me like one week I'll come in all sort of shit out. Tell you what you're doing wrong. I'm talking. I'll be on my way. You know I don't need any money. Just give me Just give me a second. Yeah, but uh, but now What should I play? Someone told me recently that I should play I did a fucking interview with some some Aussie He told me to play some Switch game called a was it Hades? Is there a game called Hades? Am I trippin? Yeah, it's
Rory:
Yeah, it's a it's a new one by a really popular indie developer. They've also made a game called Bastion and one was called Transistor.
Greg:
Yeah, someone said that was really cool. You know game was sick fucking Inside, that was fucking incredible!
Rory:
The limbo guys!
Greg:
That game. Oh, god damn, that was sick. That was fucking artistically fucking beautiful. Really cool game. Awesome sound design. Dude.
Rory:
If I can recommend one game to you, Greg. And this is a big task for me to do this, but I would say have you heard of a game called Darkest Dungeon?
Greg:
I've seen the fucking I've seen 8 million times I go in the store like every and it's always got fucking amazing reviews. Yeah, and I just cannot wrap my brain around what it is like when I'm looking at it.
Rory:
So it's just essentially like Final Fantasy turn based four on four kind of combat while you work on dungeons, but it's all about like it's lovecraftian and its themes. So everyone's gonna go through madness and there's a stress bar as well as a health bar. So it's like the more you people see these weird, horrible pig beasts or whatever, they start to go insane and that creates weird quirks with a character so they'll like fight each other or you won't be able to like select them to pick a fight move because they're just gonna make their own choice because they're going crazy. And it's kind of like this hopelessness always kind of just keep stacking and it's Yeah, it's brutal.
Greg:
Killer.
Rory:
Oh, dude, it's unreal. Like it as a experiment in like the mental effect that games Have in like you know all that stuff you know you really get invested in the characters you don’t want to see die, because when they died, they’re dead
Greg:
Oh cool Dude! Did you say Child of Light?
Rory:
Yeah dude!
Greg:
Child of Light was sick. Man Hollow Night I really dug Hollow Night, that's what for fucking ever I think that took it out of me man that was the last game I played that really that game and Metal Gear Solid took it out of me like I haven't had like the impetus to play like a big fucking game anymore since then so I've kind of been stuck on these little like quick and I've been busier fuck like these last couple records like doing Killer Be Killed and my record like it at the same time. It's like I can't you know people are like oh what you've been doing during you know last this Coronavirus attending so fucking busy. It's like I haven't had time to like to get involved in like a big game, but I feel like I'm ready again. You know, I've just been kind of taking all these little bite sized things like Fortnite and Call Of Duty or like a sports game that you can play really quickly or like a Street Fighter or something but like I'm I need to I need to get a sink my teeth into something it's gonna take some time.
Rory:
I think I think The Darkest Dungeon might be for you, man. Give it a crack next time it's on special.
Greg:
Yeah, well, man, for sure. Are you gonna grab up? I was. I was looking last night. midnight. Tp try to grab a PS five. I realized that that was fucking impossible. I got like one minute into that for I realized that wasn't possible at all to go cool. It's gonna be like a half a year before anyone can get one of these.
Rory:
Yeah, I didn't pre order so I'm just gonna wait until there's a little bit more. And plus, I got a backlog of ps4 games like I'm halfway through Metal Gear Solid five right now, man. It's fucking long.
Greg:
Dude, it goes on for fucking ever. I don't I can't. There are multiple times during the game that I only fucking kept going because of how long I was into it. Like I was like, well, I might as well just keep going on it. Like, whatever Episode 40 you know, at this point, and like, I don't even know what I'm doing anymore. I don't know what the point is. All I know is that I'm just sniping people and riding around on a fucking horse. I have no idea what I'm doing. No idea what the point of this game is, you know, but it was fun. Like I thought but I know I gave up not getting caught. I don't care anymore. I don't fucking care. I'm just gonna call airstrikes in on everybody constantly. I'm gonna I'm only gonna snipe people. Like that's that's what the game is devolves into you're like I'm just sniping people. That's it. I don't care anymore.
Rory:
Full Rambo like I just have to I have to just do that mission where you go to get the remains of the man on fire you know who's like on the body?
Greg:
Oh yeah, yeah yeah!
Rory:
And then it was like surrounded by all these dudes and like fuck it so just rocket launch it everyone called in airstrikes and just got him out of there
Greg:
Dude is that like after you have to rescue the kids are so I can't remember a lot of it anymore. It was years ago now. Like, like you're in the jungle does that in the jungle part?
Rory:
It's when you go back to Afghanistan after the jungle. .
Greg:
FUCK! Yeah, PTSD from fucking how long I played that game man. The best part is that you think it ends and it keeps going. There's like a whole like, you get to the point where you beat the big thing or whatever the big machine is or whatever and then, it just keep going you're like oh my god, dude. Fuck genuinely. Really cool moments in that game like a quiet thing is really fucking cool. I could do without the going back to the base stuff that was kind of I was not too into that. Like I don't need to run around with goddamn base. Pain the ass.
Rory:
Yeah but it’s good for morale Greg!
Greg:
Dude, I had a fucking giant horn growing out of my head by the end of the game? Like I wasn't like fucking I didn't do things like in a way that was good. I was killing people left and right killing. It didn't fucking never showered or whatever you're supposed to do. So I was just like, made out of blood and dirt. Bighorn grown out of my head. You know? Like every mission. I got like the lowest grades I just got caught. You know, he's got caught constantly zero regard for trying to be trying to be cool. That was a fun game. I got fully caught up in that game. Like I lost my whole life. Like I was fucking like, Yeah, I would put in like seven eight straight hours of time. You know? Like, just fucking just trying to get to the trying to get the end of it. And then yeah, I think I think I lost a little a part of myself forever, like, or for a long time. And for like five years that for like five fucking years, I've been unable to start anything that isn't going to end within like 10 minutes. Because of how traumatic it was the fucking play through that giant fucking game.
Rory:
That's fantastic. That's a great way to end this interview. Thank you so much for your time, Greg. It's been a real joy to talk to you man.
Greg:
Of course man! Well, man, I'll see you I'll see you down under when we get to the other side of this shit show for sure.
Rory:
I can't wait. Hey, we're we're down to zero cases in Melbourne right now. So hopefully we'll be able to open up those borders soon enough.
Greg:
Well, I got your guys are fine. It's not you, you you won't accept us because we're like the leper colony of the world dude. So like we're on our own. The rest of the world is looking at us like you guys just stay over there. You know, like, we're not we're not letting you barbarians in our world anymore. We got to get our whole shit sorted over here. We're just dropping dead left and right fucking Trump president, won't leave people dying left and right. like fucking. You guys are rapidly becoming like the whole world as a side eyeing us like constantly at this point. You know, man we got to get out of this. But All right man I keep I keep missing this other guy that's trying to call me so
Rory:
My apologies, man. Thanks again, see you soon!
Greg:
All right brother.
Rory:
Alright, thanks for listening guys. I've been Rory Beeforth and you can head to RAWINGINTHEPITMEDIA.COM for news, new releases, interviews, reviews, gig photos, REMEMBER GIGS?? They’re back! So you can get tour announcements and you can see photos from those gigs at RAWINGINTHEPITMEDIA.COM.
Thank you all very much for listening.
Album pre-sale link: http://nblast.de/KillerBeKilledAU
